SIMON REE | The Tao of Trading

Simon Ree is the author of The Tao Of Trading: How To Build Abundant Wealth In Any Market Condition. But why does the world need another book on options trading? There are already hundreds of them out there. Simon thought that all of the ones that he'd read were boring. The sorts of book you'd only read if your boss was making you do it. He thinks that sometimes the authors like to show off how good they are at complex math and difficult concepts. He tried to write a book on options trading that was simple, engaging and fun to read.

Simon Ree has worked as a professional in the financial markets since 1992, when he started his career as a futures broker. He loves studying the markets, trading the markets and he loves traders, too.

During his 28 year career, Simon worked at Goldman Sachs where he founded and headed-up the Markets Desk in Sydney. He subsequently held senior positions at Citibank in Singapore. During this time, he developed considerable expertise in financial markets, with a particular emphasis on stocks and options.

Simon is the author of the #1 Amazon Best Seller, The Tao Of Trading: How To Build Abundant Wealth In Any Market Condition. Simon’s passion extends beyond trading the markets, to analyzing the markets, talking and writing about the markets and teaching others how to trade the markets. Since 2017, Simon has successfully mentored hundreds of aspiring traders on the simple techniques he uses to generate consistent cash flow from the stock market.

TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS AFTER THIS BRIEF MESSAGE

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Chloe (1s):
Shares for Beginners.

Simon Ree (4s):
So an investor is somebody who really understands a business and buys into the business to participate in the growth in earnings and the growth in dividends and free cash flow over the very long term. And they're really not concerned about the, the asset value and the fluctuations. I mean, anybody who is worried about what the Fed might have to say, who's worried about what company might have to say at quarterly earnings, who checks their share price weekly or monthly? I, I would actually classify them as traders, but they're probably lousy traders because they don't view themselves as traders, so they haven't learned the proper risk management framework.

Phil Muscatello (39s):
Hi and welcome back to Stocks for Beginners. I'm Phil Muscatello. Is your life vague, fuzzy and unplanned? Oh no, mine is. Are you a victim of circumstance? All the time. My guest today believes that by taking control, you can design your life to achieve your goals. Hello, Simon.

Simon Ree (57s):
Hi, Phil. How are you?

Phil Muscatello (58s):
Good, good. Thank you very much for coming

Simon Ree (1m 0s):
On. My

Phil Muscatello (1m 1s):
Pleasure. Now, Simon Ree is the author of the number one Amazon bestselling book, The Tao of Trading, and the founder of Tao of trading.com. He has three decades of experience in financial markets, having previously held senior positions at Goldman Sachs and Citi. His mission is to revolutionize the way finance is taught by shattering long-held myths that have been perpetuated by Wall Street. But before we get into that, I've been, as part of my research, I've been following you on Twitter and I notice you seem to be quite acerbic about talking about inflation and people who seem to have a, an optimistic view of inflation. So you believe that we've got a long way to go in getting it under control?

Simon Ree (1m 41s):
Yeah, I think so. And look, part of it is, is we are victims of circumstance, okay? We, we had a situation where the Federal Reserve and, and frankly all central banks ran monetary policy, that was far too, at least for far too long. And then following the covid crisis, the pandemic, we had fiscal stimulus being dumped on top of it with, with monetary stimulus. Still way too easy. And then you combine that with supply chain disruptions from the pandemic and then war. And, and so it's, it's partially a victim of poor policy, partially just the victim of circumstances. But yeah, I, I don't think these pressures are gonna go away.

Simon Ree (2m 22s):
And I think that's, it's partly circum due to circumstances, but also partly due to design. When you look at global debt to GDP levels today, they're unsustainable. The financial system is, is very, very fragile. And, and quite frankly, if, if we spent the next decade with an average inflation rate of say five or 6%, it, it's probably not the worst outcome to, to be honest with you, it's a way for that debt to be made a little bit more manageable without things like hard defaults, which can be very painful. They can result in societal unrest, conflict, certainly long drawn out kind of legal proceedings.

Phil Muscatello (3m 2s):
And historically, five or 6% size interest rates aren't really that uncommon.

Simon Ree (3m 8s):
No, they're not. They're not at all. When, when you look back over the, in any period beyond the, the early nineties. And, and what, what happened is we, we've had, what, what was known at the time is that the great moderation where we had strong economic growth with really no inflation. In fact, central banks, central bankers used to complain that they couldn't get hit their 2% inflation target. And that was really a result of what largely a result of globalization. Corporates in developed world started outsourcing all of their manufacturing, or predominantly to China. And that gave deflationary forces a massive tailwind. And it looks like that game is now up, but for a couple of reasons, firstly, the pandemic revealed to CEOs around the world just how fragile their businesses have become, become very efficient.

Simon Ree (3m 60s):
But with that efficiency came fragility in terms of not having real control and sovereignty over your supply chain and just in time inventory management. And, and these types of issues were revealed to, you know, were revealing in terms of how, how fragile businesses had become. The other issue though is within China itself, I mean, China's population is aging. It's, it's got a pretty awful demographic picture. And China over the next little while, call it two years, five years, 10 years, I dunno the precise timeframe, but China is going to be less interested in growth for growth's sake and providing maximum jobs is gonna become more interested in stability and keeping inflation low and having a strong currency, which is a real reversal of what they were pursuing in the nineties and early two Thousands.

Phil Muscatello (4m 48s):
So what are you seeing as the outlook for markets over the next couple of years then?

Simon Ree (4m 52s):
Well, I think over the next, I mean, let's call it the next decade, over the next five to 10 years, I, I think we are going to see a lot of economic volatility. We, we may be getting close to the point now where inflation is, is peaking. Yeah, you're right. I've, I've been perhaps a little bit acerbic about remarks people have made that inflation is, is due to peak, just looking at things like base effects and oh bro, inflation must be down. Look at the all price. You know, it's a lot more complex than that, but we are probably getting to a point now where inflation is, is nearing a peak, but that doesn't mean it's heading back to 2% and I don't think we're gonna head back to 2% over the next decade unless something major breaks, unless we have a major debt default cycle.

Simon Ree (5m 35s):
Absent that, I think inflation, it's probably likely to remain in that sort of four to 8% range. Now, greater economic volatility is likely to lead to greater financial market volatility because there will be hiking cycles and easing cycles as that inflation oscillates. But it's probably not gonna be fantastic for real economic growth either, because when you're in a situation where central banks have pulled guidance, you dunno where interest rates are going to be. You dunno what your costs are going to be because you dunno what inflation's going to be like. It, it's very, it's much harder for companies to make capital expenditure plans and expansion plans and people just tend to kind of hunker down under that sort of uncertainty.

Simon Ree (6m 18s):
So I would say a decade of, of high volatility below trend growth. I don't think markets are necessarily gonna collapse, but you, you might come outta the next 10 years thinking, Gee, what was all that about? You know, stock market hasn't really done anything, although it's felt both thrilling and terrifying at various points along the way.

Phil Muscatello (6m 38s):
I think a lot of beginners don't actually understand the relationship between stock prices and interest rates because every time there's a, even the slightest change or a hint of a change, valuations by expert investors and financial analysts necessarily have to change as well, don't they?

Simon Ree (6m 54s):
Well, that's right. I mean, rising interest rates has a couple of important impacts. Firstly, it increases your cost of capital. A large part of the reason why so many unprofitable tech stocks have had massive increases in stock prices sort of throughout the, you know, I call it 2020 2021 was because they were able to get access to very cheap funding. And, and that game is up, you know, the free money era is over and I don't think it's coming back in the foreseeable future. So that, that hurts cost of funding. The other thing is, of course, whenever, when you're trying to value a company, traditional way of, a typical way of doing that is through discounted cash flow where you forecast cash flows out into the future and then you apply a discount rate to those cash flows and the higher the interest rates are that the higher the discount rate applied to them, which means that the lower valuation,

Phil Muscatello (7m 48s):
So you've practiced martial arts. How has martial arts affected the way you think about investing and and markets?

Simon Ree (7m 56s):
I think it's, it's probably less of a, a thought process thing and more of a, an emotional response thing. Martial arts, I think they, they teach you to be humble because it doesn't matter how how good you are, there's, there's always someone better than you. There's, there's always someone who can kick your ass. And, and it's the same in the stock market, you know, as soon as you start thinking you've got it sussed, it's, it's gonna kick you in the butt. I think it also helps you respond less emotionally. You know, a falling stock price can, can be quite terrifying to people who, who aren't used to it or haven't experienced it and they can become very stressed out by it. And, and stress, stress literally makes us stupid. You know, when when, when under stress, our ability to make high quality decisions is compromised.

Simon Ree (8m 39s):
You know, rolling on the mats with somebody who is trying to choke you out or put you in a number is, I can tell you, significantly more stressful than, you know, a 3% drop in the s and p. So I think it just helps you respond to the, the emotional ebbs and flows that the market can throw at you in a less emotional manner.

Phil Muscatello (8m 58s):
And there's a, there's a creative aspect to it as well where you've gotta be creative in the way that you respond to an opponent. And I'd assume that's the same for markets because markets are changing so much all the time. You've gotta be creative in the way that you respond as well. Well

Simon Ree (9m 11s):
I think, I think that's a really good point actually. I hadn't thought about that yet, but I think martial arts does kind of train you into having a more flexible mindset because you're right, you never know what your opponent's gonna throw at you in a similar way to you. You never really know what the market's gonna throw at you. You might, you might think you do in both instances, but there's always room to be surprised. I, I've been doing this for 30 years and I'm, I'm surprised regularly.

Phil Muscatello (9m 34s):
Well I won't take any claim for that of what I was just talking about with creativity. I like I heard it on Joe Rogan the other day when he was talking about mixed martial arts.

Simon Ree (9m 43s):
Oh, very good.

Phil Muscatello (9m 45s):
So many of the guests I have on this podcast believe in value investing at the, and that the only sure far way to wealth is long term compounding passive investing. So is trading something that anyone can do and not lose the shirt off their back?

Simon Ree (9m 59s):
Yeah, trading is something that anyone can do. And I, I've, I've seen this firsthand through members that I've had go through my, my programs. I mean my, my oldest member was a, an 80 year old lady in, in Queensland and when she started with me, she, she didn't even know how to open a, a second browser tap on, on her web browser. And yeah, within, within three months she was, she was making profitable trades and, and just booking incremental gains as I teach. A lot of books have been written, you know, in the last two or three decades on why you should just just buy the market, just buy now, just just keep accumulating dollar cost averaging and, and that works great in an environment where interest rates are low, economic volatility is low and, and markets stonks only go up.

Simon Ree (10m 44s):
I think what people lose sight of is, is how things looked kind of before the nineties. Cuz the, the, I think a lot of the people who are active in, in markets now, sorry, who are in active in markets before that are probably retired or, or, or their voice is less prominent. But history is a, is a powerful teacher and, and lost decades of are far more common than the just by now advocates would, would have you believe so that there is a time to just keep adding. But I think that there is also a time where instead of being exposed to risk all of the time, you want to be able to identify high probability moments in time to expose yourself to risk. And, and really that's the environment we're in at the moment.

Phil Muscatello (11m 23s):
What, what do you mean by lost decade?

Simon Ree (11m 26s):
Well, if you look at 2000 to 2013 S&P went absolutely nowhere. It had a couple of big rises, couple of big falls, but over that 13 year period, it, it did, went literally nowhere. And if you've, if you've been hanging on for the long term and, and being a diligent investor, it hasn't paid you anything. And, and you know, if you look at 1969 to 1979 and that, that was another lost decade. And you know, if you look, look at real returns on the stock market, you know, we've had 20, 25 year periods where real returns have been virtually zero as well. So this, this kind of idea of just shut your eyes and buy and hold on and, and don't worry about the volatility.

Simon Ree (12m 8s):
Look, it can work in certain market environments, but it breeds I think a, a, a terrible risk discipline and approach to risk management. And, and I think people's approach to risk management is what's gonna separate the, the winners from the losers now more so than any, any other time in the last 30 years.

Phil Muscatello (12m 26s):
And you don't have a long term portfolio yourself, do you?

Simon Ree (12m 29s):
No, I don't. I I used to but I, I, I just, I don't see the point now, you know, you alluded earlier about compounding and it was Albert Einstein who claimed that compound interest was the eighth wonder of the world. And okay, look, I think with interest rates getting back up to something that you can actually touch and feel, you know, that that could come back again. But ultimately the more often, the more frequently you can compound the, the more magical it is. If you take $10,000 and you compound it at 10% per annum, at the end of five years, you'll have about $17,000. I mean it's, it's not bad, but it, but it's certainly not life changing.

Simon Ree (13m 9s):
If you take that same $10,000 and you compound it 5% per month, you're gonna end up with about $335,000 at the end of five years. So you, you start talking about life changing returns and, and 5% per month, it might sound unrealistic, it might sound like magical thinking, but when you're trading options with, with a, in a very risk controlled manner, it's, it's actually quite doable, quite achievable for anyone. I I've got members who are doing significantly better than that.

Phil Muscatello (13m 40s):
So tell us a little bit about the methodology behind the Tower of trading.

Simon Ree (13m 45s):
So the Tao of Trading, I mean, tao just means the way, and, and the reason I wrote the book is because, you know, why does the, why does the world need another book on options trading? There are already hundreds of them out there and, and I know cuz I've, I've read quite a few of them, but all of the ones I'd read were both boring. Like they're the sorts of book you'd only read if your boss was making you do it, you know what I mean? And, and that's the situation I was in and, and they're quite difficult and, and I think sometimes the authors, you know, like to show off a little bit how good they are at complex math and difficult concepts. So I thought, well, well what the world needs isn't just another options trading book, but it needs a book on options trading that is both simple and engaging, fun to read.

Simon Ree (14m 31s):
And, and the number of people who've emailed me or DMed me and said, you know, I read your book in a in a weekend, I, I can't believe it is really heartening. So I think I've, I've, I've kind of hit that goal in writing a book that's simple and engaging and in the book it's, it's not just, you know, set up after set when to buy. People make the mistake of coming into trading thinking if, if they just know when to enter a trade, that's it. That's all they need to know. And honestly, that's, it's one of the least important things. The, the most important thing to becoming a successful trader is risk management. And, and that is the thing that you cannot skirt on. The second most important thing isn't your entry, it's actually your exit, right?

Simon Ree (15m 14s):
Cause if you don't exit trades profitably, there, there was no point entering them. Entries are important, don't get me wrong, but it's probably the least important of the three if you're looking at entries, exits, and risk management. And then I also spend a couple of chapters really deep diving into the psychology of trading is having the, the correct mindset really is, is what's gonna separate the winners from the losers, you know, aspiring traders from professional traders

Phil Muscatello (15m 42s):
And, and how many people have become professional traders based on, on your teaching?

Simon Ree (15m 48s):
So we've, we've got, we've got over a thousand members around the world and I mean, I only hear from obviously a percentage of them, but I'm aware of a handful, maybe half a dozen who've literally quit their day job to do this full time. But that's, I think that's not the ambition of most people who, who want to learn trading that the ambition is to, you know, not necessarily quit their day job or, or quit their business, but, but to just provide an additional revenue stream or, or provide a way of growing their capital more quickly. I guess my, my two biggest customers, if, if you like, or, or, or or demand for for our memberships would be people who are staring retirement in the face.

Simon Ree (16m 31s):
Maybe they're five years away from it, two years away from it, maybe they're even 10 years away from it. But they're asking themselves the question, you know, how am I gonna fund my retirement and, and not make my lifestyle take a big hit? And the other one is I guess more sort of millennials who've been priced out of the property market. They, they can't buy their first home. They've been kind of burnt in the stock market, they've been burnt in crypto and they, they're just really wondering how, how to get ahead financially. And I think trading is a, is a really good tool for, for both of those groups. And, and we've got people, we've got engineers, we've got financial professionals, we've got school teachers, we've got yoga teachers. It really is people from all over the world and all walks of life.

Phil Muscatello (17m 14s):
Is there an aspect of technical analysis to, to your methods?

Simon Ree (17m 18s):
Yeah, look, my my trading is purely technical really.

Phil Muscatello (17m 23s):
So that's looking at those colored charts, you know,

Simon Ree (17m 26s):
Looking at charts, yeah. Looking at price action, technical analysis can, at the very least, it can save you from nasty accidents. If, if you're aware that a stock is breaking below the 200 day moving average, you know that, that's often a really big warning sign. And if, if professional traders like Paul Tuda Jones are aware of and studying things like the 200 day moving average, all of us should be anybody who's ever looked at a chart and, and used that to determine a stop loss point is using technical analysis. The technical analysis we use is, is a little more sophisticated than that, but we, we just use common indicators that are available in any charting platform. We just combine them in a what is a slightly uncommon way.

Phil Muscatello (18m 9s):
So this podcast is for beginners. Can you just give us a quick overview about what options actually are?

Simon Ree (18m 15s):
Yeah, sure. So there are, there are only two kinds of options. There are, there are call options and there are put options. You buy a call option on a stock when you think the stock price is going to go up, just remember, call up as in call up a friend, you buy a put option when you think the stock price is going to go down, put down, you know, like put down your bags and buying a call option. It's, it's a little bit like renting a stock because you get the most of the benefits of ownership of the stock. You don't get dividends. But, but you get most of the other benefits of owning a stock, albeit just for a finite period of time. So instead of paying $10,000 or you know, $9,000 on a hundred Google shares, you might spend three or $400 on, on a Google option.

Simon Ree (19m 1s):
But the money that you make on that option, if, if the stock right rallies 10% could end up being, you know, similar to what you might have made on, on the, on the stock. But on the downside, if, if the stock falls 10%, you know, if you spend $9,000 on Google shop stock and it falls 10%, you're down 900 bucks. If you've only spent $400 on the option, you're only down $400. So there's, there's kind of inbuilt risk protection in, in trading options. But I, I teach people to be far more proactive on, on their risk management than that. You want to cut your position long before that happens. And really at the first signs of trouble, the disadvantage with options is that they are a wasting asset, alright?

Simon Ree (19m 42s):
They, they have got a finite life. You can buy Google stock and hold it, you know, for the next 10 years. Hopefully. We don't think Google's gonna go outta business. Whereas a Google option that expires on the 16th of December, it ceases to exist on that date. All right, so the time value of money is always working against you. And that's why we use technical analysis to pinpoint and identify high probability at moments in time to get exposure to risk, like I said, rather than just sitting on an ETF portfolio and being exposed to risk all the time. Writing the ups and the downs and basically crossing your fingers and hoping that markets will always recover.

Phil Muscatello (20m 22s):
And what size stake do you need to get started in, in doing this kind of trading Look,

Simon Ree (20m 28s):
I I recommend people start with $5,000 because it, it's enough for you to put a few positions on, get a little bit of diversity, weather some volatility, some ups and downs you're gonna have losing trades. Losing trades are just a cost of doing business. I have had members start with with much less than that, but I, I generally don't recommend it. I think think $5,000 is a, is a good sort of starting balance

Phil Muscatello (20m 50s):
And you don't sell options. Cause I know that you can sell options as well, but it's basically only buying calls and buying puts. That's it.

Simon Ree (20m 58s):
I do sell options but only as part of a spread, which is a, a slightly more complex transaction cuz it involves two legs. You're buying a call and simultaneously selling a call option or buying a put and selling a put. So it's a little bit more complex, but, but not much. And yeah, we, we do cover that in our training

Phil Muscatello (21m 17s):
And that provides a level of protection, I'd presume

Simon Ree (21m 20s):
It does, it, it greatly mitigates the, the risk of what we call premium decay, which is this wasting nature of options. And in fact, you, you can even do a trade, it's called a credit spread where that, that premium decay works in your favor. So you, you sell something today for a dollar 50 and then hopefully in two weeks later it's, it's worth nothing. And, and you get to to profit the, the money that you sold up for.

Phil Muscatello (21m 46s):
You talk about the myths of Wall Street. What are the five big myths of Wall Street?

Simon Ree (21m 52s):
Ah, yeah, I mean there are many, but kind of, there are five that I cover in my book. I mean my, my favorite one is this notion that 10% per annum is a fantastic return. And this is a myth that I think has been created and propagated because 10% per annum is, is approximately the, the long term annual return of the s and p 500. And through a market cycle, it's a return that a financial advisor should be able to get you on average without really doing a whole heap of work. But if they can convince you that that's an amazing return, you'll be quite happy to pay them a whole heap of fees for, for doing that for you. But it's, the fact is, it's, it's actually not that great of a return.

Simon Ree (22m 33s):
You investors with the right knowledge and the right skill set can do much, much better than that. Look, 10% per annum is great if you're already very wealthy. If you've already got a million dollars of risk capital, yeah, you can earn a hundred thousand dollars a year doing that, it's wonderful. But if you've got five or $10,000, it really is the, the slow lane to, to wealth creation.

Phil Muscatello (22m 54s):
And the then the other big myths of Wall Street?

Simon Ree (22m 56s):
Well another one is this notion that finance is difficult and investing is hard and complex and I mean, Wall Street has, has made it so deliberately difficult, okay? They've, they've created a, their own jargon and, and their kind of their own way of talking and communicating and, and it's done deliberately to, to make you feel like an outsider. None of this is particularly difficult. Wall Street certainly isn't launching any satellites anytime soon. And this is all knowledge that is in within the grasp of anybody who can, who's got basic PC literacy. You know, the other big myth is this notion that investing is, is sensible and, and trading is like gambling.

Simon Ree (23m 39s):
And that there's this notion that if you've got a short time horizon, you're a trader and, and you, you, you know better than a degenerate gambler. I've got a slightly different definition of a trader. I I think anybody who buys a financial asset with the expectation they'll be able to trade outta that asset in the future at a higher price is a trader. So, so trading, it's, it's not a function of timeframe, it's a function of purpose. So an investor is somebody who really understands a business and buys into the business to participate in the growth in earnings and the growth in dividends and free cash flow over the very long term. And they're really not concerned about the, the asset value and the fluctuations.

Simon Ree (24m 21s):
I mean, anybody who is worried about what the Fed might have to say, who's worried about what a company might have to say at quarterly earnings, who checks their share price weekly or monthly. I, I would actually classify them as traders, but they're probably lousy traders because they don't view themselves as traders. So they haven't learned the proper risk management framework. One of my favorite myths is this notion that high risk equals high returns. And, and I think, you know, finance as a discipline has conflated the word risk with the word volatility and they, they actually mean two very different things. Volatility just refers to variability and price, to me risk, it refers to loss of capital.

Simon Ree (25m 3s):
Alright, so, so what Wall Street wants you to believe is that to increase your chances of winning, you gotta increase your chances of losing. And honestly, I I ask you how does this make any sense at all? So what what I urge people to do is if they want to increase their chances of winning, they've gotta reduce their chances of losing as much as possible. And that all comes with strong risk management. And then there's this, this notion that buy and hold is the only sensible investment strategy. You can't time the market, you can't beat the market. All of these types of associated myths saying that you can't time the market. It's a little bit like saying you can't fly an airplane. I mean, yeah, absolutely, you can't if you haven't acquired the skill set.

Simon Ree (25m 47s):
But if you acquire the skill set with practice what once seemed impossible almost starts to feel like second nature. And saying that you can't time the market really just says that either you've never tried or you've tried and failed and, and you just parroting conventional dogma.

Phil Muscatello (26m 3s):
So are there any other takeaways from your book that you'd like to share with listeners?

Simon Ree (26m 7s):
Look in terms of the book, So the book goes into obviously the five myths and, and why I, why I think now is a really good time for people to take control of their own finances. And then in the last chapter I talk about how to make it happen and, and how to, how to compound your gains regularly while, while managing your risk. And, and I think the, the point that I, I just want to hammer home more than any other point is, is this concept of risk management. Because if you, if you start life as a trader, even if you're not making money through your first weeks and even your first months, so long as you're not losing money, if you stick to the process and you get really good at the process, you almost can't help but be successful eventually it's, it's people who throw their risk management practices out of the window and blow up their accounts.

Simon Ree (26m 53s):
They, they're the ones you hear about and it's nearly always a failure in the trade rather than a failure in the system.

Phil Muscatello (26m 59s):
And how much time do people need to devote to trading?

Simon Ree (27m 4s):
I would say when you're learning the ropes, you probably want to be able to devote 10 to 15 hours a week. Alright. And, and that might take you four to eight weeks to learn the methods, learn how to place orders, learn how to re charts, learn how to run your scans, learn how to operate your brokers platform. Once you've, you've kind of grooved things and I, I reckon it usually takes your first hundred trades, your first hundred trades, really, that, that's like your apprenticeship. Once you've got through that, you should be able to do this on average in about 20 minutes a day. So all of the trading, well, not all 95% of the trading I do is based off of daily charts. So I do all of my analysis when the markets are closed.

Simon Ree (27m 46s):
I, I run scans which I share with my members, which enable them to highlight high probability candidates very, very quickly. You still need to do your research, go through a weeding out process on those scan results. But instead of analyzing hundreds of charts every day, you might only need to analyze half a dozen some, sometimes my trading will take five minutes, sometimes it'll take an hour. But I would say on average it's about 20 minutes to half an hour a Day.

Phil Muscatello (28m 12s):
So how can listeners find out more? Where do people find out more about the Tao of Trading?

Simon Ree (28m 17s):
Well, you can follow me on Twitter at simon underscore re or you can follow me on LinkedIn at Simon re My website is www.toweroftrading.com. And what I'd like to do, Phil, is offer your listeners some special resources and, and some discounts on our memberships. If they go to www.taooftrading, that's T a o o f t r a d i n g.com/sfb. They can access some resources there. They can download the first chapter of my book for free and, and claim a discount on some of our educational programs.

Phil Muscatello (28m 55s):
Fantastic. Well, we'll put all those links in the, the show notes and the the blog post as well. Simon Ree thank you very much for joining me today.

Simon Ree (29m 4s):
Been my pleasure, Phil. Thank you.

Phil Muscatello (29m 6s):
If you found this podcast helpful, please tell a friend, especially if it's someone who needs to start thinking about investing for their future, you'll be helping them and helping me to keep this show on the road

1 (29m 17s):
Shares for Beginners is for information and educational purposes only. It isn't financial advice and you shouldn't buy or sell any investments based on what you've heard here. Any opinion or commentary is the view of the speaker only not shares for beginners. This podcast doesn't replace professional advice regarding your personal financial needs, circumstances, or current situation.

Phil Muscatello (29m 36s):
And thank you for listening to my podcast.

Stocks for Beginners is for information and educational purposes only. It isn’t financial advice, and you shouldn’t buy or sell any investments based on what you’ve heard here. Any opinion or commentary is the view of the speaker only not Stocks for Beginners. This podcast doesn’t replace professional advice regarding your personal financial needs, circumstances or current situation.