CAMERON REILLY | Quality at Value

In an era where financial markets are more accessible than ever, the line between investing and speculation often blurs for many beginners. In this week's episode I'm joined by Cameron Reilly of the QAV Investing Podcast.

Cameron is the master's apprentice to Tony Kynaston, a multi-millionaire long-term investor who has developed his own investing methodology. Cameron and I delve into the core principles of value investing, emphasising the importance of understanding a company's intrinsic value. Cameron shares his journey from knowing next to nothing about investing to becoming an informed investor through the QAV methodology, which stands for Quality at Value.

He uses the simple analogy of buying a café to explain how to spot a good investment - not just another speculative punt. It's a straightforward way to understand how a business operates

We touch on the use of technical analysis, specifically the three-point trend line, to assess market sentiment and make informed decisions about when to buy and sell. This pragmatic approach helps investors avoid the pitfalls of market volatility and capitalise on opportunities when the market sentiment is favorable.

By focusing on quality companies and understanding their true value, you can navigate the financial markets with confidence and avoid ill-informed investing traps.

TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS AFTER THIS BRIEF MESSAGE

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Phil: G'day and welcome back to Shares for Beginners. I'm Phil Muscatello who is the master's apprentice who is going to take after the great man when the Eminence Gris moves aside. Is that the correct pronunciation, Cameron? Emine.

Cameron : Gre.

Phil: Eminenon. Greece, I think. Emineon Greec the Grey Eminence.

Cameron : Fancy.

Phil: He is. He is. G'day Cameron.

Cameron : He's more red than gray. But uh. Hi Phil.

Phil: Hello Cameron. How are you? May I introduce you to the listeners of this podcast? Because we've had Tony Kynaston from the Quality at uh, Value QAV investing podcast on many, many, ah, a time, but this is the first time we've had you because you're at the kind of the. The machine room behind Tony Kynaston, aren't you?

Cameron : Mhm. I am the machine. Yeah. Yes. No, I'm the guy that presses the buttons and keeps things moving along. That's basically my job.

Phil: So just tell us a little bit about QAV investing just for listeners who mightn't have come across Tony before, but be plugging your service quite a bit in this episode and in subsequent. I always have trouble saying subsequent episodes.

Cameron : That's a big word. It's a big word. M. You find that after you've moved to Queensland, big words get harder and harder to say progressively as you. I've got Queensland speed.

Phil: I am in Queensland now and my trivia team said I only moved to Queensland to go to a trivia with easier questions. Apologies to all the Queenslanders out there.

Cameron : Y. Well, so QAV is uh, a podcast and I guess an investing education service that Tony and I started um, coming up, I guess probably six years ago, I think it was 2019 we started doing it. Tony and I had kind of known each other for 10 or 15 years at that stage. He'd been, uh, a listener to my podcasts for that period of time. My history, ah, related podcasts mostly. And then we had collaborated on a book about psychopaths together. We collaborated on a documentary about early Christianity together. And when that was wrapping up, sort of 2019, Tony said, what should we do next? He suggested we do a podcast. We were sort of workshopping ideas. He wanted us to do a life of Gough Whitlam, I think was his idea. And then around about that time, my children, my sons, I got twin sons who were about 17 or 18 at the stage, just finishing high school. They started a podcast for uh, their sort of generation. And they reached out to Tony to be a guest on that because I didn't even really know what Tony did. I think early on when I got to know Tony, I said, what do you doing? And he goes, well, I'm sort of an investor. I just sort of manage my personal investing fund. And I, uh, went, that's boring. And so we, that was it. We never, I knew he was rich and had a nice lifestyle, but that was it. And we never really got into it. But I heard my son's interview him, they say, hey, Tony's rich, right? We need someone to come and talk to us about Money for, you know, millennials or whatever they are. And so I was listening to their podcast with Tony and he was talking about the fact that he had developed a system for investing. Didn't have a name for it, ah, at the time, just his system, his that he'd developed from reading lots of books about Warren Buffett and guys like that. And so when he and I were workshopping an idea for a podcast, I said, well that sounds interesting. We should maybe do one on investing. You can teach me everything you know about investing. And he said, uh, ah, no one's going to want to listen to that. But I convinced him that I wanted to listen to that. I didn't care if anyone else wanted to listen to them. And so that became qav. We came up with the QAV name Quality at Value, because that's the essence of his investing methodology. So you know, basically we do a weekly show where we answer questions from our QAV club members and we talk about investing news and we talk about stocks. Tony does a deep dive

00:05:00

Cameron : on, uh, a stock every week and occasionally I do one. And we basically teach people how to be value investors. And uh, essentially what that means in our world is only invest in companies that have a good track record of generating lots of Cash, they're well established businesses, well managed businesses, and then only buy those when you can buy them at a discount and then hold them until the market recalibrates and values them accurately. And then that's it. That's basically the essence of value investing from a QAV perspective. So that's what we do. And so yeah, when we started this thing, I literally knew next to nothing about investing. Had dabbled a bit I think back in the dot com days, had friends that had startups and the dot com days invested. You know, uh, today I would say that wasn't investing, it was speculating, but speculated in shares, lost everything and you know, realized that that was sort of dumb. I worked at Microsoft for a long time and I got options, Microsoft options that did very well for a while. And then the dot com crash happened and the DOJ case happened and all of those shares became less valuable. So I ended up selling all of those. That was my entire experience of share investing before doing qav. So it's been, uh, a learning journey for me over the last five or six years.

Phil: I'm exactly in the same position as you, Camero. And I came into this in 2019 knowing nothing about share investing. Well, actually I did. I'd been investing in shares for many years poorly and using the opportunity of having a podcast so, uh, that I become a better investor myself. And also my joke that I always say is when I first started the podcast, I didn't even know how to spell etf.

Cameron : That's good.

Phil: And now it's basically all I. Oh, is it how.

Cameron : And how's your stand up career going? How does that joke go down? Stand up close? Terr. Terribly.

Phil: It's like all my jokes, you know, they, they never hit the mark anymore. Uh, so, okay, so you started working with Tony and at the heart of it is a spreadsheet, isn't it? And this spreadsheet scores companies on their quality and all the way through to the end where there's going to be a value score with a tiny little bit of technical analysis thrown in. Just, uh, give us a brief overview of that.

Cameron : Yeah, I think Tony's great genius and I do put him up there with Einstein as one of the great geniuses. Michelange, I think, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Einstein, uh, Tony Kynaston. He was able to take a whole bunch of ideas and a whole bunch of theory and isolate it down into a spreadsheet that anyone can follow. But he didn't do it for anyone, he did it for himself. So when we started the show we had to actually, you know, munge it into some sort of form that I could understand and we could talk about. And then ve I've simplified that down into code. Now that runs most of it for me on the back end. But you're right, it's based on kind of fundamental analysis really. Uh, Tony's basic theory is that you should just look at the numbers when you're analyzing a company. When you get involved in investing. And I mean, I know this is a large part of what your show is about. You have people come on and they talk about investing and they talk about stories. And whenever you look at the financial media, if it's the Financial Review or most of the investing podcasts out there, whenever you have a CEO come on or a broker or an analyst, they're all telling stories. Tony's whole philosop, he is ignore the stories. He loves to say, if I want to hear a story, I'll buy a book. Forget the stories because everyone's got a story and they're all more or less worthless really. To know what a company's doing, you need to look at the numbers. Now for people like me, and I assume you, I knew nothing about looking at the financials of a company when I started this, but it turns out it's not that complicated if you keep it fairly high level, which is what we do. So basically the QAV process is that we use a, ah, data service, Stock doctor or Stockopedia these days, primarily where we can download all of the fundamental financial data from all of the companies on the ASX or the NASDAQ or the New York Stock Exchange. Doesn't matter what the exchange is, what the GE geography is. Download all of their fundamental data. We put that into a spreadsheet and then we analyze the relationships between different

00:10:00

Cameron : data points. And there's two things that we're looking at when we're doing that. We're trying to assess the quality of a company based on its financial data. And essentially, I mean, there's lots of different components of that, but really at the end of the day, the thing that we care about the most is how much cash are they generating. Are they generating money? Cash is king. That's. At the end of the day, that's the number one metric that really matters to us is are they making money? Is the business making money? That's really what we want to know. And, and also are they consistent at making money? You know, are they making more and more money every year or is it choppy or is it Going backwards or, you know, they sort of. So the first part of the scoring process that we use the spreadsheet for is to assess the quality of the business. And the second part of it is to assess the value of the business. You essentially value investing, you know, going back to Benjamin Graham and Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger and all those sorts of guys, is trying to work out what you think the value of a single share of the company is right now at this point in time, and then what you think it'll be worth in the future, and then trying to figure out what the relationship is between the price of that share today and the intrinsic value of that share. And Tony always says you should buy shares like you buy anything else when you can get it at a discount. If you're going to buy a car, if you're going to buy a house, if you're going to buy clothing, whatever it is. If you're smart, you wait until things go on sale and you get them at a discount and save a few bucks. We do the same with shares. We will only buy shares when we think we're getting them at a discount to what their true value is. Why would you pay more for something if you don't have to? And then you just basically wait for the market to wake up to. And the market usually does. I mean, sometimes we get it wrong. But QAV is built on the premise that if we pay attention and you do our, uh, maths right, if we get it right 60% of the time, 6 out of 10 times over the long haul'll do better than the market average, which is what we're trying to do. You don't have to get it right 100% of the time. Warren Buffett says he only gets it right 60% of the time. So that's good enough for us. 60% of the time, you get it right and the market, eventually somebody in the industry will work out, oh, you know what, this thing is actually worth more than it looks like, uh, for a whole variety of reasons. And the price will appreciate and the value of your shares will go up. So, in essence, I was just out to breakfast with one of my listeners and we got talking about this, and I said, you know, you can boil it down to that simple idea. Buy good quality companies when you can get them at a discount, and then just sit and wait for the market to wake up to the fact that this thing is currently undervalued. It's a very, very simple premise for investing, which is good for me because I uh, don't like things to be too complicated. But also I think the good thing about that is it doesn't go out of style. It's not based on what's sexy, what's trendy, what's getting a bunch of hype. In fact, it tends to steer clear of hype because the things that are getting hyped up usually aren't, um, the things that are making Money and are undervalued. If they're undervalued, it's usually because they're not getting the hype. Right. The things that are getting the hype are usually overvalued. The things that are missing out on the hype because they're not sexy is where you find the opportunities. As somebody, one of the famous investors I think it was, might have been lynch said, it's the person who turns over the most rocks wins. So we look at, uh, you know, our spreadsheet will look at hundreds or thousands of companies every week relatively quickly and just identify the um, 20 that we think are well run businesses that are currently undervalued by the market. And that's where we go fishing. Are you confused about how to invest? Life Sherpa can ease the burden of having to decide for yourself. Head to lifeshherarpa.com.au to find out more. Life Sherper, uh, Australia's most affordable online financial advice.

Phil: It's interesting that you say that it's hard to find value at any time. I've had Elio and Chris from Stockopedia on many times and Stockopedia actually has a value score as part of their metrics. And often there'll be these great companies that are spitting out cash year in, year out, you know, Prom, Medicus, Wisetech or whatever. But then you look at the value score and the value is hopeless. And it's trying to find

00:15:00

Phil: that time, isn't it?

Cameron : Yeah, they have some good scores in Stockpedia. They have uh, the stock rank and the quality rank and they have a value score which we use in our system when we're using the stockopedia stuff. But yes, it's that combination of quality and value. Having a business that's good quality is one thing, but you don't want to pay too much for it. And you know the analogy that Tony used with me, and I'm sure he's said it on your show before, this is really where it started to make sense to me early on where he said think about like buying a cafe, giving you the cafe analogy. I'm sure Something that most of us can get our head around.

Phil: That old one.

Cameron : Yeah. I lived in Melbourne for 20 years and spent a lot of that time in cafes. And you know, he said so for people that haven't heard it, I'll tell it quickly. Imagine you were given an opportunity to buy a share in a local cafe. You're going to take a third share, let's say, in the local cafe. What are the things that you would look at? What are the basic things you would want to know about that cafe? Well, you'd probably want to look at how much money it's making, you know, how many customers it has, how much competition it has. You know, what are the assets that the cafe has? Does it own the property or is it just leasing the property? Does it own its coffee machine or is it just leasing it? Does it own the furniture or is it leasing it? You'd want to look at the fundamentals, the basic fundamentals that everyone could figure out. You know, you give anyone with any, like any level of experience in life, you can be 18 years old and know nothing about business, but if you sat down with a pen and a piece of paper for 10 minutes, you'd probably figure it out, right? And then you would at the end of the day say, okay, well how much are you asking for this half? Let's say you're going to buy half of the cafe. How much are you asking for it? What's the price? And based on how the business is performing and how I think it's going to continue to perform in the near future, how long will it take for me to get my money back? If you want $100,000, let's say for 50% of the cafe, but it's making $20,000 profit a year and I'm getting half of that as a half ownoneer, that's $10,000 profit a year I can assume I'm going to get from the business, assuming that it, it's got some longevity to it. So that would take me 10 years to recoup my investment. Then I have to say, well, is that a reasonable amount of time to just recoup my initial outlay? What are the things that could change over that 10 year period? Like, uh, cafe trends probably aren't going to change a great deal, but there could be competition. You know, where's the suburb going? Do I think there's going to be more yuppies in the suburb that I want to go to a cafe? What's going to happen to the price of coffee over the next 10 years, as coffee beans disappear because of climate change, you would start to think about that. Now, if I could get, let's say the business is generating $100,000 a year in profit. So my share of that is 50,000. I'm going to recoupit my investment in two years. Is that better than 10 years? Yeah, it is, uh, because that means that by year three, I'll be making Money out of my investment. So that's what we call the price to operating cash flow ratio. We tend to look at operating cash flow, not net cash flow. Because Tony believes that accountants can do all sorts of dodgy things to make something look good. He likes to look at the, the top line. How much money is it generating as the base metric? So we look at the price to operating cash flow, and we're looking for something with, ideally, with a low price to operating cash flow, we have a cutoff of seven. Anything that's going to take more than seven years for me to get my, uh, initial investment back is too long, because seven years is a long time. And I can't predict what the world's going to look like two years from now, particularly with AI where it's at, let alone seven years from now. We could all be robots seven years from now. So we're looking for low price to operating cash flow. But the CAFE analogy, when I started thinking about investing through that lens, all of a sudden my brain, uh, you know, before that it was all just abstract numbers and stuff. When Tony gave me the CA and the STOR stories, yeah, all of a sudden I could get a handle on it with the CAFE analogy. So that's where I like to start when I'm teaching people QAV system is to get them to start thinking about it in terms of something real that most of us can get our head around. And then the concepts start to make sense. All right, how much am I spending? What am I getting for that? And how long is it going to take for me to get my investment back? And how confident

00:20:00

Cameron : am I that the business is going to return that investment? Over that time frame, it just becomes a lot more, uh, actionable to me and a lot less abstract than investing is. And that's when, you know, when I get talking to people about bitcoin, which is a conversation I've been having with people said pre QAV going back 10 years, I got a lot of friends that are big bitcoin evangelists. My first question is, well, tell me how I calculate the intrinsic value of a single bitcoin today. And then I know, you know, what the value of it is and how much I should pay for it if I want to get it at a discount. And to this day, nobody has been able to tell me how I calculate the value of a single bitcoin. I just read Anthony Scaramucci's new book on bitcoin, the Little Book of Bitcoin by the Mooch, because I heard him talking about it on a podcast recently and I thought, okay, well, you know, this is a new book. He's a massive bitcoin evangelists now. I thought, okay, I'll have a read of it and see what science there is and what arguments he's got in there. Nothing. Like absolutely nothing. There's nothing in there apart from the usual things, which is, well, there's only going to be 21 million of them ever made. It's a limited resource. But of course there are lots of things out there that are limited. That doesn't mean that they necessarily have any value. And there's the possibility that it could become this big important currency that everyone in the world will use. Well, sure, but there's a possibility that could also go the other way and get banned by governments or there could be lots of competition. So, uh, until I can calculate the intrinsic value of a unit of whatever it is, I have no way of knowing whether or not it's investment. That was the other big thing that I learned from Tony is the difference between investing and speculation, which is basically just gambling and what a lot of people call investing. They say, I'm investing in bitcoin. No, you're not. You're gambling in bitcoin. I'm investing in afterpay back in the day. Well, no, you're speculating on afterpay. You know, I think what most people think of as investing really is just speculating. It's gambling. You're crossing your fingers and hoping that it's going to do well. There's no science, there's no logic. There's no real rational reason why you think that this stock or this coin or whatever it is has an intrinsic value and you're able to buy it for less than that today. Uh, to me, that is the core of investing, when you really boil it down. And if you can't do that, it's not really investing. It's. I mean, it may be loosely, you could say it is, but really it's in the realm of gambling. You're just hoping that it's going to. The value of it is going to go up. So that's a big learning and takeaway for me too. I think they're the two fundamental things that anyone who's thinking about getting into investing needs to understand right up front.

Phil: Getting back to the numbers. QAV operates on a twice yearly cadence basically of earnings reports. That's the case, isn't it, in Australia.

Cameron : Now that we're doing stuff in the new US market, it's quarter is four times.

Phil: Four times a year. Yeah, yeah. And a lot of people sort of say, well, can you trust the numbers that the companies are reporting? You can trust them, can't you? To a certain extent. You've got nothing else really, have you?

Cameron : Well, they have legal obligations to be transparent if those numbers change. Now obviously we see plenty of cases where all of a sudden they come out with their results. There is this thing, you know, confession period, you know, where if they know.

Phil: Is this st. Love confession period?

Cameron : Yeah, confession season. You should start to get an inkling if the numbers don't stack up, and sometimes you don't and all of a sudden the official numbers come out and you're like, what the hell just happened? Why didn't we get a warning about this? Uh, but you know, there are you in a highly regulated environment like Australia, the US is a little bit more loosey goosey, but we should be able to trust the numbers to a fairly high degree. Obviously there are instances where that doesn't always play out and you know, sometimes people get penalized for that and sometimes they don't. But you know, I think to a fairly high degree, I trust that directors are going to try and fulfill their legal obligation to be transparent about their numbers as much as possible. Yeah.

Phil: Let's talk about the three point trend line for a moment. It's one of my favorite pieces of technical analysis I've come across in this business. Because

00:25:00

Phil: three point trend line listeners mightn't be aware, but there's a thing called technical analysis. And that's where you see the little red and green candlesticks I think is the name that's given to them on a screen which is uh, describing the price action. Whereas the three point trend line is uh, a very simple line chart over five years. Describe the importance of it to listeners, please.

Cameron : Yeah, and this is one of the things that sets Tony's strategy apart, I think from most value investors. There is a mindset that you see if you're in any value investing subreddits, that if you're a value investor, you just buy something regardless of market sentiment and you hold it regardless of market sentiment pretty much forever. And there's some validity to that. You can do that, sure. But Tony modified that a little bit. I think he did it after the global financial crisis because when the global financial crisis hit, he saw his portfolio reduced by half. And then if you look at the index, it took 10 years for the all lords to get back to where it was before the global financial crisis happened. Tony's view is that as good as your assessment of a, uh, company's prospects might be, if for some reason the market has turned against it, there's not a lot of point fighting market sentiment because it's not like there's nothing else to invest in. Like if you're Buffet and you've got $100 billion you need to get rid of, you have limited opportunities where you can get rid of that. For most of us, at most points in time. You know, there have been instances in the last six years when I've found it difficult to find something to invest in that meets all of our criteria because the market was being trashed because of, I, uh, don't know, Covid or Ukraine invasion or something like that. But generally speaking, most weeks there's always something I canine to invest in where not only the fundamentals look good, but the market sentiment is headed in the right direction. There's no reason why I need to just give the market two middle fingers and say, I don't care what you think, I'm going to stick to my guns and be bloody minded about it. So we use the three point trend line to basically assess the market sentiment for a stock and we will use that before we buy in. There are things that we're looking for, we're looking for basically positive sentiments. So the share price is going up even if it has been going down for a long time but has suddenly turned around. That's actually quite often a good time to get in. You're buying low, right? Um, so we will use a certain amount of technical analysis to assess when we're getting into a stock. And then also when we're getting out of a stock, if it breaks through a particular price barrier and the market is dumping it for some reason, then we will use that as a signal to get out of a stock. And part of that IR rationale is sometimes that can be because people know things that we don't know, essentially analysts, because we're not professional analysts. So we don't try to be professional analysts. We don't go deep on any particular sector or any particular company. We are very surface level. We look at just what the numbers, the stories the numbers tell us. We don't know what the macro or microeconom economic factors are that are affecting a sector but people, there are people who do that and if for some reason they've decided that something's not right with the sector or with this company in the sector and they're getting ahead of the game, then we can use that as a little bit of an early warning signal. We don't want to be get caught up in too much volatility though. So we look at month end prices over a five year timeraame. So we try and weed out too much volatility but generally looking at longer term trend lines for a stock price. Then there are also instances where there's you know, not um, illegal insider trading but insider trading people inside the company or the sector that get wind of something that's going on that hasn't been officially reported yet and you'll see a price all of a sudden tank and you know that can be an indicator that it might be time to get out. We will also look at trend lines for underlying commodities for commodity stocks and if the price of an underlying commodity, say an iron ore

00:30:00

Cameron : or a coal commodity breaches a selll line over a three point trend line graph, then we know that that tends to be a leading indicator that the price for the stock will probably go on a decline as well as it the if the price of iron ore is in decline the FMG price will usually follow. Usually there's a bit of a lag there. So we use that to get out ahead of the curve. So yeah, but uh, a lot of value investors really get angry at the idea of using market sentiment. But Tony's philosophy is I might as well go put my money into something that's heading in the right direction. Why, why just stick there and try and provoe thesis. Yeah, you might be proven right 10 years or 20 years later just over.

Phil: And take it, take the loss.

Cameron : Yeah, it's a little bit of the wisdom of the. Yeah the wisdom of the crowds thing but also I think it's just pragmatic that listen, we're not going to get it right all of the time for those reasons that I mentioned before. And if it's going in the wrong direction, say okay, cut my losses, take what's left of my initial capital investment and put it into something that's going in the right direction. Like that. To me that just makes a lot of sense. Now of course sometimes we get it wrong with that too. And I have a rule that it's a bit like ex girlfriends on Facebook. Never go back and see what they're doing. There's no good will come from that. If you sell a stock, don't go and check what happened to it a month later, becausee 40 of the time you'll probably kick yourself for selling it again. We hope that over the long haul, our, uh, selling triggers will pay off. And, you know, you, you'll come 6 out of 10 times you'll be better off because you sold something when your indicators told you to. But those other 4 out of 10 times really hurt when you sell something and then it bounces back the next day and you're like, ah, damn it. There's nothing good to be taken from that in my experience. And we do regression analysis on our rules every now and again just to see on a macro perspective whether or not they seem to be working. But in the short term, it's never a good thing.

Phil: So we've been in partnership now for a few years where we've been promoting the Tony Kynaston QAV methodology. And there's two tiers, isn't there? Tell us about the two tiers and then we'll just quickly run through the discounts that we offer. And also, full disclosure, we both make Money out of this, but someone's got to pay for the podcasts.

Cameron : That's right, yeah. So we have QAV Club, which is our, uh, main membership, which is people who want to learn how to do this for themselves. Sign up to QAV Club, the black belt level. You, yeah, you want to become an investing masters. And you get the premium episodes, which usually go for an hour or hour and a half each week. You get invitations to our private Facebook groups and dinners that we do from time to time. And you get to ask Tony questions that go on the show. And you get to spend time with me walking through stuff. You get access to the checklist and the Bible and all of that kind of stuff. So you get all of the tools to learn how to do this and run it yourself. But then over the first couple of years, we had a number of people say, listen, I'd love to be able to do this, but I don't have time. I don't have the patience to learn how to do it myself. I just want to know what to invest in each week. Can you do it for me? So a couple of years ago, we created thing called QAV Lite, which is an email service where, uh, every Monday I send a newsletter out to people where I do the checklist. I come up with the buy list, and I give them a couple of stocks to buy. And then what makes that a different from some of the other subscription services out there is then I also track those stocks, I put them into my management tool, and when it's time to sell one of those stocks, if they breach one of our sell triggers, I also notify our, uh, membership and say, hey, you know that stock I said you could buy six months ago, it's just breached to sell Trigger, and you might want to think about selling it. And here's what we're replacing it with. I put all of those into a portfolio tool. I put them into nexa, manage them through that so we can report on how they're doing. And, you know, we can keep people up to date with when they should sell. Because I've heard from members over the years that some of the other subscription services are out there, will tell you what to buy, but don't then don't tell you when you should sell it. So if people aren't paying attention, these shares can go down substantially and they don't really know about it until it's too late and they've lost 20 or 30 or 50% of their investment. So we have a 10% rule one sell trigger. So if anything goes down 10% below what we initially paid for it, we will also cut our losses and reinvest our capital. So QAV Club is for people that

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Cameron : want to learn how to do it themselves. And as I always say, you know, Tony could get hit by a bus or just decide that he would rather spend his time playing golf. And, you know, we won't be able to do the podcast anymore, so it probably makes sense to learn how to do it yourself. But for people who, for whatever reason, don't want to do that, they can subscribe to QAV Lite, which is a, uh, lower monthly fee. Just get the buy list handed to you and you just get told what to do each week. And you don't have to think about it, you don't have to do any of the analysis or the, the tracking and the management of it yourself. You just need to be able to buy something and then sell something. You sign up for one of the myriad brokn services that are available as apps these days and just process your buy and sell orders. It's that simple. And open the emails and read the emails too.

Phil: Of course, of course you got to know when to buy and when to sell. Yeah, because that is one of the biggest questions I get from listeners is knowing when to sell. It's a very difficult, very difficult thing. But anyway, look, we'll wrap it up and just remember that in the show notes, the episode notes and whatever platform you're viewing on, there's going to be episodes notes. There's going to be a link to the blog post that has got the the discount codes, I believe the SFB for the full version and SFB Lite which will we will honour with a special discount and you'll be helping to support this podcast and the QAV podcast as well. Cameron, thanks very much for joining me today.

Cameron : Thanks, Phil. It's a pleasure. Thanks for listening to Shares for Beginners. You can find more at sharesforbeginners.com. if you enjoy listening, please take a moment to rate or review in your podcast player or tell a friend who might want to learn more about investing for their future.

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