In our latest podcast episode, we are joined by Lel Smits from The Stock Network. Lel is an expert in financial literacy and investor relations. Together, we delve into the intricacies of company announcements and their profound influence on investor decisions.
Lel is a former Wall Street journalist who sees the importance of company announcements beyond their role of legal compliance. She describes them as "equity narratives," a storytelling medium that offers investors a deeper insight into the companies they are invested in. These announcements, which range from earnings reports to leadership changes, are crucial for assessing a company's financial health and strategic direction.
One of the key highlights of our conversation is the distinction between expectations and reality in the stock market. Lelde shares her insights on how investors can better understand the impact of announcements by focusing on pre-announcement expectations and the future outlook outlined in these updates. This approach can help investors navigate the often-confusing market reactions to seemingly positive news.
We also explore the role of investor relations, otherwise known as public relations but for stocks. Lel explains how investor relations teams manage the relationship between the company and its stakeholders, ensuring transparent and effective communication. For those new to investing, she offers practical advice on where to find company news, such as official stock exchange websites and company investor portals.
Moreover, Lel introduces us to The Stock Network, a platform designed to simplify ASX announcements through engagint "tiktokable" multimedia content. By creating short-form videos that are both engaging and compliant, The Stock Network aims to make stock literacy accessible to a broader audience, including emerging investors.
This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone interested in the stock market. Whether you're a seasoned investor or just starting your journey, Lel's expertise offers a fresh perspective on mindful investing. Tune in to learn how to decode company announcements, assess their investability, and make informed decisions for your financial future.
TRANSCRIPT FOLLOWS AFTER THIS BRIEF MESSAGE
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Chloe: Shares for beginners Phil Muscatello and Finpods are authorised reps of Money Sherpa. The information in this podcast is general in nature and doesn't take into account your personal situation.
Lel: Investing really does require a lot of hard work, and in my role as an investor relations advisor, I consistently meet with sophisticated, ultra high net worth investors. To them, there's very little emotion about where they're partying and putting them money. It's very calculated, very considered and very hard work.
Phil: G'day and welcome back to shares for beginners. I'm, um, Phil Muscatello. What do company announcements really mean for investors? Where can you actually find this company news and how can you best read the tea leaves? Joining me today is Lelda Smiths from the stock network. G'day, Lelda.
Lel: Hello, Phil. Great to be here.
Phil: Thanks very much for coming on. Now, Lel is a former Wall street journalist and advocate for financial literacy, managing director of the Stock Network, advisor for the Capital Network, a director of the Australian Shareholders association, and an ambassador for women on boards, which is not a surfing organization, I believe.
Lel: Not at all. Although, who knows, there may be some.
Phil: Surfers among us surfing the, um, investing tsunami. It feels like it sometimes doesn't.
Lel: Yes, absolutely.
Phil: So we're basically getting together to talk about the stock network, which you've just launched, and, um, this is all about company announcement. So let's start by talking about company announcements and what they really mean for investors.
Lel: Well, first up, I want to say that company announcements, I personally think way more exciting than they're made out to be. Another word for them is legal compliance, which, of course, is the opposite of exciting. But what they represent is a chance for investors to really get to know the companies that they're invested into. Another way that I describe it from my investor relations background, is an equity narrative. What is the story, what are the thematics that you are invested in? And, um, for investors, this provides such an incredible opportunity to get to know your company inside out. If you take these announcements seriously, and if you approach them perhaps with the same enthusiasm that you may a Netflix series, what's come out, what's coming out next, and what does it mean for me and my stock portfolio? So, announcement, whatever you want to call them, whether it's announcements, compliance, or equity narratives, they're absolutely crucial because they provide this official communication from the company, and they're reflective of financial health, strategic decisions, operational changes, everything. They really, of course, impact the investment decisions, and they influence the perceptions of a company's future performance. They can include everything from earnings, mergers, acquisitions, leadership changes. My personal favorite that I like to hear about is outlook, because as you have probably heard, investments are, uh, about the future. And certainly when I was a journalist reporting on up to twelve stories a day, one of my favourite things to do would be to go to an announcement, press control f find, and put in the words outlook or forecast. That's what everyone's looking for, to see how the stocks perform. A broker once said to me, if you want to understand an announcement and the share price of an announcement subsequently to its release, all you need to look out for is two things. One, the expectations before the announcement was released, and secondly, the outlook. And with that framework, and really engaging with that framework gives you a much better hold of your investments and understanding where they are and where they're going.
Phil: Yes, uh, we've discussed that recently on the podcast, um, because so many people sort of say, oh, XYZ company came up with a cracker result and the share price went down. Without actually realizing this interplay between expectations and reality.
Lel: That is such an important point. And certainly when I was starting my career, I found it so incredibly confusing. How can you release the most incredible news as a company and see your share price flat, uh, or go down? An example, let's say, would be FDA approvals. When companies are, uh, working so hard and the whole market's aware that they're looking for an FDA approval, the expectation enters into the market psyche. And really what you see often happen ahead of these big announcements is at, uh, the stock run up, so really peak, everyone jumps on board. And then when the announcement is confirmed
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Lel: with positive news, uh, sometimes it does nothing, the share price, and it can be confusing to a new investor. You would think to yourself, why wouldn't it continue to go higher? Again, that really comes back to those expectations heading into the announcement. And then what is the outlook that is outlined in the announcement? And from an investor's perspective, that's what you really should be tuning in for. First and foremost, when you look at an announcement, not just where the company has been, but where they're heading, you.
Phil: Mentioned earlier about investor relations. Can you explain for listeners what investor relations means? And I'm also assuming here that it's a very different animal for a large company to a small company that is trying to get its story out there in the marketplace.
Lel: Absolutely. Investor relations, I don't think, is as well understood as perhaps it should be in the investment community and especially outside, broadly. Broadly speaking, let's say, if I'm at a barbecue and someone asks me what it is, I may say something like, similar to public relations, but for stocks. Another analogy I may use to simply explain it, or example is Coca Cola. So if you had a public relations team for Coca Cola, they would be organizing things like billboards, Beyonce at the Super bowl, magazine articles, ads on tv, radio placement. That's to get consumers to buy the drink. Investor relations is to get investors to buy the stock and to manage that relationship between the stock, the company and the investors. So in many ways, it still, of course, is the relationship between stakeholders and the company, but it involves many, many different initiatives. To Beyonce at the Super bowl, it would be organising things such as the compliance announcements themselves, managing the CEO's communication with the media and stakeholders, and also, of course, managing the investor relationships. So multifaceted and larger companies generally have full time investor relation managers. Smaller companies may rely on a few different outsourced options to get them, um, those results. But it is a very important function for a listed company to have to ensure that they're managing the relationships in the same way they're managing their customer relationships.
Phil: So where can people find company news? How can they access it?
Lel: Of course, if a company is listed, there are two main places, uh, that you should go or be looking at. That's the official stock exchange website that they're listed on, and also a company's website. So companies, of course, all have websites, but they aligning to that, it's a compliance regulation for them to be listed on the exchange, that they have an investor portal, or an investor website, or an investor section. And usually, I mean, companies do this to varying effect. Some are tremendous, some are poor, some go over and above to educate you and provide those materials as to the investment that you have, and others do the minimum. But really, those two places are the key areas that are going to provide you with the completely compliant and transparent information in order for you to buy, sell or hold your investment.
Phil: So you've worked as a journalist for much of your life. What do you look for in stock news?
Lel: Look, journalists, certainly when I started my career and I was writing up to twelve stories a day, I was on those exchange platforms. So the ASX, uh, portal, I was refreshing that platform hundreds of times a day to see news as it came out. Those announcements start coming out from around 07:00 a.m. every day till late at night. And in the first instance, if you're looking for, let's say, material news, that's news that the company deems to impact the share price, there should be a little dollar sign next to the announcement. As a journalist, I was always very tuned into the use of active verbs such as achieves or, uh, records or acquires. These verbs, of course, show that a company is actually doing things and not just releasing perhaps like a compliance statutory update. So really, again, going to that platform first and foremost. But of course, I think another really great tip for investors, and perhaps not enough do this. If you want to hear directly for the company, many companies invite you to give your email when you go to their website. So
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Lel: signing up for press releases, earnings reports, the direct company statements coming to your inbox, these are all completely verified information that keep you in the know with what the company that you're following or the investment that you have are doing.
Phil: I think a lot of people have an idea that journalists spend a lot of time like gumshoes, you know, running around looking for stories, when a lot of the time it's wrangling press releases that come across their desk, isn't it? Is there any kind of thing that you're looking for to separate the sizzle from reality?
Lel: Certainly from an ASX perspective, when you see that dollar sign and it is material, you know that it's going to impact the share price. That's facts. And generally, even, I must say, from an investor relations perspective sometimes, especially when companies are new, such as if they've IPo'd and they're unfamiliar with the regulatory framework, they may think that the ASX announcement platform is just simply a platform for press releases. We always say that that platform is there for the facts, and the facts need to speak loudly enough to be considered important enough for shareholders to, uh, be put on the ASX platform. So generally for me, as a finance journalist, if it was on the ASX, and if it had that dollar sign, that would be first and foremost important. I was never an investigative journalist, but of course they have many different other sources and methods of collecting news, and I think they rely on much more than just a regulatory announcement.
Phil: Ok, so you co founded investor, media, and, um, digital relations firm Capital Network. What's the difference between the stock network and, um, the capital network?
Lel: So the capital network is very much advisory, whereas the stock network is amplification. The stock network was created because we recognized that companies are spending so long and working so hard on their operational achievements and communicating these operational achievements to the market. But they need help getting those announcements out to a broader audience, and that's where the stock network comes in, simplifying ASX announcements, because coming back to that earlier point of legal compliance. Often these announcements are written by a lawyer, or at least looked over by a lawyer. So translating them in a way in which is engaging and resonates with a broader community is where the stock network comes in.
Phil: Because I think a lot of investors sometimes approach company pr, uh, public relations or investor relations with a certain degree of cynicism, but really there's a lot of compliance in place, limiting what they can say and the claims that they can make as well. Is that the case?
Lel: Absolutely. And when I think of ASX announcements and compliance and that whole process, I often think of an image, perhaps of a very calm swan on the top of the water, paddling madly underneath the water. When those announcements are lodged on the ASX by the company secretary, the end result often is, as you would expect, professional, and many would have no idea the incredible amount of hours and collaboration between management, legal, communications, invest relations, everybody, to get that announcement to the very highest standard and the very most correct legal terms, while also doing justice to the announcement. And sometimes there are factors that even impact the company that, uh, are beyond their control. Let's say, for example, a small company that has done a deal with the larger company, often the larger company won't want to be named in that announcement, or, uh, will ban the smaller company from naming it. And then if you have clients that operate in sectors such as defence or government, then there are also restrictions on what smaller companies can say, which is incredibly frustrating for them internally because they, of course, want their shareholders to know everything that they're doing. But there's often so much that does go on behind the scenes before the announcement goes out.
Phil: Yeah, it's an interesting world, isn't it? There must be some weird and wonderful ones as well. What's the quirkiest a six announcement you've ever seen?
Lel: The quirkiest would probably, I would have to give that award to a company that is still doing this, that I find very interesting. Rewardal holdings. So their code is RXH. There. They released their announcements with, uh, emojis in it. Now this is very unusual, and I saw this, that they started to do this a few years ago and just
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Lel: checked up on them this week and I thought, oh my gosh, they're still doing it. However, it is in some ways aligned to their operations because they are focused on social media, marketing and mobile and payments. So in that way you can understand it perhaps more than a minor or a biotech. But what some people may not know is that in the US a few years ago, uh, they ruled the emojis, like rocket ships or a stock chart or money bags, actually mean a return on financial investment. And that was a recent court filing. So, generally, from my perspective, when I have my advisors hat on, I'm probably advising companies to play a more cautious card when they're releasing ASX announcements. But certainly I'm, um, increasingly noticing that those announcements that used to just be, you know, black words on a white page, companies are absolutely looking at different, new, innovative ways to communicate with shareholders, which, of course, presents opportunities and risks depending on how it's executed.
Phil: So leave the rocket emojis for the crypto bros.
Lel: Personally, from my perspective, yes. Not something I would be advising. But of course, as technology and as visual communications improve, it is interesting to see that even listed companies are, uh, are trying things differently to communicate with their investors.
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Phil: So what's been the best and most effective ASX announcement you've seen?
Lel: Probably for me, it's the ones that strike that perfect balance between clarity, transparency, investor values. Uh, so I think a way in which companies do this very well is through investor presentations. For those maybe not as familiar with the ASX announcement platform as I am, there are two major ways that listed companies are communicating. That's the ASX announcements themselves that are, uh, written and crafted, generally with a communications professional going beyond what a legal professional will do. And then there are investor presentations. I'm a massive fan of a great investor presentation, one that has a ton of images, perhaps even links to videos. Images, for me, I always say, again, putting on an advisor's hat are not just pretty pictures, they are evidence of operations. I don't just want to see stock images. And in fact, from a compliance perspective, that is not even encouraged at all. Uh, what you really want to see as an investor is evidence that what you're investing in is real and it is making an impact in the community that it's operating. And from my perspective, there's no way better way to do that than a presentation or a video, because seeing is believing.
Phil: And sometimes those presentations, uh, they tell their own stories. I mean, I just recall at the ASA annual conference earlier this year, and Promedicus, I mean, what an incredible story. Prometicus. And, you know, you see the images and the charts up on the big screen, and the story tells itself, doesn't it?
Lel: Absolutely. I remember one CEO that I worked with who was obsessed with Green arrows going up, and he said to me, my only goal is that this presentation is filled with Green arrows going up. He said, that's what I want my presentation to look like. And it was the first time I'd received that request with such enthusiasm, so I had to reflect on it. But now, when I see those Green arrows going up, and especially when you see a lot of them, it has a strong impact on your psyche as an investor. It certainly is a very positive symbol that gives you a confidence and assurance that you're invested in the right direction.
Phil: Feel free not to answer this question. Have you ever been asked to roll it in glitter?
Lel: Oh, of course. And that is such a lovely way to put it. I wish the examples that I could give you were said as nicely. But absolutely. I mean, it's a reality of news and communications that you have good and bad news. And I think as a, uh, uh, communications professional, absolutely. When I'm tested the most is when you have bad news for an array of reasons and you're asked to craft it in a way which is not as bad from my perspective. The way in which I manage this is to focus on, again, coming back to what we said earlier, the facts and the outlook. You have to be transparent with the facts, and that's point one. That's what everyone expects and what we're there
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Lel: to do. But where you have more control to craft is the outlook, and that's an opportunity to acknowledge where the facts are, but to say what you're going to do about them. And generally, even when there is bad news, most people in leadership positions are not there just to accept it. They're there to do something about it. So that's where I really come in to help them communicate what their strategy is to move on from that bad news and why an investor should feel hopeful there will be a turnaround.
Phil: Very diplomatically answered. Thank m you. It's interesting because, you know, I get to research a lot of companies for the podcast, and I can't actually remember the company, but their announcements and annual reports and everything, there was no pictures, nothing. They were like these typed pages. Great company, though. They didn't really need, um, the pictures, and I can't remember what it was, but there was kind of like an artfulness in the lack of sizzle.
Lel: Well, you know, it's very interesting the different perspectives that companies and boards have. Absolutely. There are conservative board members that will often really exert their influence on management. And say, we don't want to have a promotional, uh, mentality. And for them, that includes images, videos, language that is not factual. And that's a real shame, because often a CEO, when we hear that as an advisor, like we want to have a toned down approach to our communication, that's often not coming from the CEO. The CEO is there because they want to go out and talk about the positives of the company. But a conservative approach, uh, does exist for many, many reasons. And sometimes those reasons are justified, like if the company has previously been promotional and it hasn't worked, or if they've disappointed shareholders. Often we hear the line, we just want to focus on our results for now, or stick our heads down and let the results speak. But also, I must say, I've been doing this for well over the last decade, being an advisor, and the pandemic really was a significant change. I noted, uh, before and after in the ways that companies were communicating. There was a lot more conservatism before the pandemic. And I think during that time, when we were not allowed to meet physically, the importance of digital communications became amplified. And we certainly noticed that those conservative conversations of not wanting to show board pictures or show videos changed when there was no other option. So I think that was probably a good thing for shareholders in communication, not.
Phil: To mention the limited attention spans that we all suffer with these days as well. And we do like the pretty pictures. How is that changing in the way that companies are speaking with investors?
Lel: Personally, I think it's been for the best because compliance traditionally, and you still sometimes, sometimes see remnants of this. I remember many years ago when I started as a finance journalist, you would even see on an ASX announcement the fax machine number. Well, you don't see that anymore then sometimes you still, on an ASX announcement, will see the location that announcement was written. And I asked once a mentor, why is that there? And they said, oh, that's historical, when they used to type in the location that they were sending the announcement from. I think I do appreciate these days that communication is advancing and it is becoming shorter and it is using more multimedia. And there's more of an idea and appreciation for investors getting the short story, but then also the option to expand upon that with the additional disclosures.
Phil: As a board member of the Australian Shareholders association, and we all know the association is looking out for the interests of retail investors. Which companies do you think communicates the best with their shareholders?
Lel: Well, I could certainly give my opinions here, but I could also share that, uh, ASA has awards annually. And this year, the award winner, uh, for most effective shareholder communication was CSL. That was really, I think, because they showed very clear efforts to enhance transparency and engagement. They hosted pre AGM sessions with company monitors, and they adopted really plain English in their annual report, which is very commendable to be, uh, clear and accessible. And last year's award winner for most effective shareholder communication was Woolworths. So they also, I think, are very committed to a quality of reporting and that is multifaceted across all the different realms of communication. And the way in which I think it is very apparent, if you look at both of these investor presentations and you're not familiar with the company, you should walk away with a very good understanding of who that company is, who both of them
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Lel: are very complex companies, but communicated in a simple, easy to understand way.
Phil: And Woolworths has been under a lot of pressure in the media. I mean, obviously because they're right at the forefront of the inflation wars. And, um, I think listeners could have a look at some of the documentation on the ASA website regarding Woolworths and how the association feels about this particular company.
Lel: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, ASA, of course, is focused on education and advocacy. So their advocacy materials are all available on their website.
Phil: Yeah, we're not talking investing tips here, are we? It's not a tip sheet by any means.
Lel: Yeah, no, not at all. But there are. ASA also has monitors, so they are looking at companies with a microscope to really see the way in which they are communicating. And they're, of course, engaging on a, uh, face to face level with the company executives.
Phil: So tell us about the stock network. Now, what would listeners be expecting to find if they click on the links in the blog post in the episode? Notes?
Lel: Well, I would call it Australia's freshest stock literacy. You know, following on, um, from the conversation we've just had, ASX announcements can be very complicated and confusing. But increasingly, companies are adopting new and fresh ways to communicate their compliance announcements. So in line with our goal to amplify ASX announcements, we are using multimedia to create short form video clips and sharing these announcements on the same day that they're released, but in a short form. Way to hit the message home.
Phil: Highly tiktokable, aren't, um, they.
Lel: That's exactly right. We also have a TikTok page, but creating content that is, you know, generally 15 to 30 seconds long, very visually engaging and 100% compliant. Many people ask me, how can this be done? I think because I have viewed thousands and thousands of ASX announcements over my career. Uh, there is a way in which you can shorten them, and we have a team working to do that, and also to do it compliantly. So we hope that this, that what we're doing helps companies because it helps them get the message across to their investors, but really that it helps investors understand and engage with stocks in a way in which they haven't been able to do before.
Phil: How can listeners benefit from the content on the stock network?
Lel: Well, I think what listeners are getting really is accessibility. And, uh, especially for emerging investors, they can understand what's going on in a very short time. When I think of perhaps an investor that may benefit, I think of someone like my mum, who has zero understanding of stock markets. If I gave her an ASX announcement, she would completely glaze over and just not at all have the interest to engage with that announcement, let alone really understand what's happening or why. But if I gave her, uh, a 15 2nd video of a listed company that accurately, compliantly conveyed images and videos of those company operations with a few keywords highlighting what they've achieved, it immediately breaks down that barrier of not understanding legal compliance, to understand trust and engage what a company is saying to then encourage further investigation. If you then want to go on and engage with that ASX announcement further.
Phil: Um, investors do need to be wary of stories and investing in stocks only because of the stories. How would you suggest that listeners should look at these stories and then assess them for their investability?
Lel: Yeah, that's a very good and important question. So while the stock network is focused on fresh stock literacy, compliant news and short stories, they are absolutely just an introduction to a broader conversation and process of research that needs to occur. So you will find on all of our short form content, there is always an invitation to read more, learn more, hear more, and that is a link to the full ASX announcement or to a full interview. What we're putting forward is really just the short story. It really is up to all investors to run the ruler over, uh, the stocks they're investing into. And sure, listen to an interview, watch a 15 to 32nd clip to put something on your radar, but know that that's just the start of a much more lengthy process. And really, I mean, a number of sophisticated investors that I have spoken to, and certainly
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Lel: major shareholders of companies, they are reading annual reports, hundreds of pages from the first page to the last. That is the sort of commitment that people that are, ah, major shareholders take on their investment. And of course, the more you can do your own research and know that company inside out, the better off you will be.
Phil: So, investing tips. And when we were preparing the episode, you kindly added the idea of personal insights to support mindful investing. Um, I'm just interested in the idea of mindful investing and in the context of key tips to investors navigating the stock market.
Lel: Yeah, absolutely. When I think of mindful investing, I often think there is a difference between a casino and an investment. And I think many people often get confused. They want the hot stock. They want to feel excited. They want those rocket ship emojis. My personal perspective is that investing should not feel like a casino. And if it is feeling like that, probably not investing. Investing really means work and patience, and it probably should feel boring at times. Certainly when you hear, uh, very experienced investors speak that, um, and compounding. That's exactly right. So that mindfulness is, again, my perspective, checking in on how you're feeling. And is this a, uh, rational choice or is it an emotional choice? Personally, I think it's really important to record everything because you can't manage what you can't measure. And I like to track my investments well before I get into them. And then, of course, when I'm into them, uh, be attentive of them. Secondly, investing in yourself. I think the more you invest in your knowledge and your education in particular, as so many industries on the stock market are evolving, it's really important to be investing in your education. And the final point would be to resist FOMo. The fear of missing out. And these, in line with our conversation of equity narratives and ASX announcements stories, can sound very exciting. That is the goal of companies and, uh, communications professionals to really engage investors with the story. That can really make an investor feel that they may be missing out if they don't purchase. But focus really means saying no. And I think that really applies for investing as well. You want to have the ability to keep a cool head, focus on what your objectives are, uh, and make sure that when you decide to part with your money, it's mindful and not emotional.
Phil: There's a lot of no's to be said, aren't there? Yes, because not every company is going to make Money. I just hark back to the opening night of the conference, the ASA conference earlier this year, where there was a slide that showed over 100 years of data. 7% of companies in that 100 years have outperformed the index.
Lel: Yeah. And it's very, very important to understand that it's not a lottery. Investing really does require a lot of hard work, and in my role as an investor, relations ah, advisor. I consistently meet with sophisticated, ultra high net worth investors. To them, there's very little emotion about where they're parting and putting their money. It's very calculated, very considered, and very hard work.
Phil: Okay, so finally, looking ahead, what are your investing and professional goals?
Lel: Personally, I want to make stock education accessible for everyday australians. I found it incredibly hard starting my journey as an investor and navigating these very complex compliance announcements. And so, having grown up with no knowledge of stocks and a fear of finance, I really want to help break these barriers for future generations. I'm also working on an early introduction to investing for children, including a stock certificate template, really to help children visualize investments. I'm a big believer in visual communications for all age groups and all sorts of investors, whether they're young or more experienced investors looking at images and videos on ASX platform. And I really just want to make sure that this fresh approach to financial and stock literacy starts to engage investors and Australians with their stock investments.
Phil: Lill Smitz, thank you so much for joining me today.
Lel: My absolute pleasure and happy investing feel you too.
Chloe: Lil uh, thanks for listening to shares for beginners. You can find more@sharesforbeginners.com if if you enjoy listening, please take a moment to rate or review in your podcast player or tell a friend who might want to learn more about investing for their future.
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Any advice in this blog post is general financial advice only and does not take into account your objectives, financial situation or needs. Because of that, you should consider if the advice is appropriate to you and your needs before acting on the information. If you do choose to buy a financial product read the PDS and TMD and obtain appropriate financial advice tailored to your needs. Finpods Pty Ltd & Philip Muscatello are authorised representatives of MoneySherpa Pty Ltd which holds financial services licence 451289. Here's a link to our Financial Services Guide.